At Wednesday’s “News at Noon: Incarceration, Race and Employment,” Beth Heubner, professor of criminology and criminal justice, got a chance to address a topic that she says keeps her up a night.

In 1987, there were between 500,000 and 600,000 Americans in prison.

Current national incarceration numbers are well above 2 million. A significant number of these prisoners will, at some point, return to society and seek employment, but study after study shows that employers are wary of hiring a prospective employee who is an ex-convict. Such selective practices are even more common, according to studies, if the ex-convict is black.

The primary study source of this information is a shocking 2003 research piece published in the American Journal of Sociology.

According to that study’s findings, a white applicant with a criminal record is more likely to get a call back than a black employee without a record.

“This topic got me into criminology,” Heubner said. “This topic keeps me up at night.”

The students, faculty, and alumni attending Wednesday’s News at Noon seemed equally surprised to hear some of the statistics that Heubner quoted.

Chart after chart drilled home the point that America’s relationship with her incarcerated has drastically changed over recent decades and seems to be out of control.

“We have more people in prison than the next 26 countries combined,” Heubner said.

The round-table discussion format of News at Noon (the collaborative program series put on by The Current and The New York Times) was more somber than in recent weeks.

Attendees interacted with Heubner, though the air was quieter than at other News at Noon engagements, some of which have seen fairly fiery debates arise.

Peggy Cohen, who is, among other things, director of University of Missouri-St. Louis’ Center for Teaching and Learning, brought her perspective to the discussion.

“What are parents and educators doing, or not doing?” Cohen asked.

This led to the most animated discussion of the program as the eternal debate of where the lines between poverty, education, and criminality are drawn, and whether they have any connection whatsoever.

In the end, regardless of any real, imagined, or provable causality, incarceration levels in the U.S. are off the charts.

In recent years, changes in sentencing have a lot to do with the reason why.

And Heubner is a self-proclaimed proponent of smarter sentencing.

“Your chances of going to prison for weapons or drugs has about quadrupled,” Heubner said.

And if you are someone who has fallen to these chances, been imprisoned and returned to society, things are harder for you than ever, as a poor job market means longstanding demons of racial discrimination.

All in all, the situation adds up to an unaddressed national issue—one among many that is likely to continue to fester.

Angenette Wallace, an alumna who attended this News at Noon and vocally participated, encapsulated much of the spirit of the discussion.

“It’s like our dirty little secret in America,” Wallace said.